Feedback wanted: HTML5 version of the Player Framework

Coordinator
Apr 14, 2011 at 5:20 AM

We are starting work on a new HTML5 version of the player framework and want your feedback. Help drive the direction of this new version by telling us what you would like to see in this new version. Post ideas, comments and requests on this thread and help shape the future of the upcoming HTML5 version.

Thank you!

The MMP Player Framework team

Apr 14, 2011 at 12:56 PM

Awesome news. 

Hmm.. one thing that would be nice would be a unified JS interface between the two. This is something I've had to do a few times recently , one site we had SL, Flash and HTML5 video players. 

Another would be themeing/assets. It would be good for both the SL and HTML5 players to use similar assets/patterns for themeing to make customizing easier. I know there will be no way to unify them. 

For "fullscreen" on the HTML5 player it would be good to allow that to be styled through CSS. We encountered many gotcha's when implementing this on a site full of different z-indexes and some overflow:hidden divs. 

Apr 14, 2011 at 1:15 PM

Another nice thing would be to allow for customizing the selection and downlevel experience. I can see where sometimes we would want the SL player to be the main one and only use the HTML5 when on mobile devices and then other times only use the SL one when the user is not on an HTML5 browser. I've had to do both of these scenarios on recent sites. 

As well it would be nice to make it modular so a Flash version could be made as well. In another recent project I worked on we had a client who had video assets that were a mixture of types, FLV, WMV and MP4. So have something like videoplayer.sl.js, videoplayer.html5.js and also be able to create a videoplayer.flash.js. It would be interesting and probably good to have a way they can be automatically used based on the video type needed to play.

Apr 14, 2011 at 2:11 PM

Can I request a small bit of education in HTML5 land?

Does HTML5 actually support adaptive streaming or are we talking progressive download only? I didn't think the architecture allowed for adaptive but I want to confirm.

Apr 14, 2011 at 2:43 PM

HTML5 video support is browser specific and basically all progressive right now. I believe WebM will/does have some streaming support. That being said the browsers do tend to do a good job with position jumping and chunking the downloads.

One of the biggest drawbacks in HTML5 video is the difference between what codecs are supported across the browsers. Like basically only Safari and IE9 do H.264 (Chrome does right now but will be removed soon). IE9 can do WebM with a plugin installed

Apr 14, 2011 at 3:06 PM

Got it... the irony with HTML5 spec is that we solve all of these problems and then we're right back to how each browser decides to implement them, feels like the IE6 of media ;) - so is the aim with the HTML5 player to fit in with the Smooth Streaming infrastructure (i.e. a progressive download of .ismv MP4 assets I guess) as a compliment to Silverlight, or basically a separate HTML5 player framework for other media services?

I'm curious since at least in our world, the next big hurdle we have to handle is Silverlight fallback, so that we can deliver Smooth Streaming assets in some form or fashion to users that don't have SL installed (and mobile). HTML5 would be awesome for that, but on the progressive side brings some questions - suppose we can progressively download a certain bitrate, how do we determine the best bitrate to choose? I know with progressive it's not technically possible to "jump" to another progressive stream since there are no frame/timing positions available to correlate with the media file byte position; how does YouTube handle this in manually switching bitrates?

Also, is there any method in HTML5 that allows for Composite Manifest-ish support? If not, playlists would be a much appreciated feature.

Apr 15, 2011 at 9:06 AM

HTML5 in this platform would be a big win, and would certainly make this platform more attractive.

Apr 17, 2011 at 9:43 PM

ha.. I just saw the Mix11 session video, good to see some of the items I want were being considered already.

Apr 18, 2011 at 3:46 AM
Edited Apr 18, 2011 at 3:47 AM

1) During the selection process in order to move forward with SMF we did some analysis on Kaltura open source framework for HTML5 video playback. Kaltura falls back on Flash, and works nicely with HTML5 video playback as well. Kaltura has lot of features built in to the open source library, is that something we are moving in the direction of?

2) One another thing noted during the mix session is that, we are going to have fallback mechanism, the only request is, let the implementor have that choice in terms of the order of fallback. Those who don't want to move to HTML5 for couple of more years should have the ability to have no fallback at all and let the customers install Silverlight.

Thanks,

 

Jun 29, 2011 at 6:08 PM

Does the Silverlight version will continue to evolve  ?

Thanks

Coordinator
Jun 29, 2011 at 8:29 PM
fgoulet wrote:

Does the Silverlight version will continue to evolve  ?

Thanks


Yes it will. We have a number of items planned for a SMF update late summer/early fall. Some of the things we're considering for our next release:

  • Updates to TTML/DFXP
  • Addition of a few other captioning formats like 607/708
  • Support for the Microsoft Universal Ad Client
  • Metadata framework
  • Enhancements and fixes to support better integration with our upcomign HTML5 framework.
Coordinator
Jun 29, 2011 at 8:43 PM

Quick update:

We're nearing the end of our first sprint for the upcoming HTML5 Player Framework. We should have our first "preview release" available within the next couple of weeks. This first release will be fairly basic functionality but will include a lot of the plumbing that will support the more advanced features that we will be releasing over the coming months. For example, we have spent a lot of time on the plugin layer and the detection library (fall back/forward). We'll also be spinning up a new dedicated site, outside of Codeplex, to focus on all of our Player Frameworks as we're in the process of significantly increasing our investment in the development of these players (particularly the HTML5 player).

We will post more updates as we get closer to our first release. Please keep the feedback coming.

Mike Downey, Microsoft
miked -- at -- microsoft.com

Jun 30, 2011 at 8:38 AM

This is great news!

Initially we would look at using the HTML 5 player for playing videos purely on the iPad / iPhone. SMF is great for using on a PC / Mac and I don't really want to encode to both H264 and webM. I'm not sure what video formats Andriod supports but hopefully it hasn't cut support for H264 like Chrome. Apple HTTP Live Streaming seems to work OK as a adaptive bitrate streaming solution for HTML5, but it would be great to see smooth streaming support.

So initially I'd use a player aimed at mobile devices, with things like big buttons for chunky fingers and being able to hide all menus. Also in fullscreen mode I'd want to keep my look and feel for the player rather than using the devices default full screen player. Apart from that just getting as many features from the SMF into the HTML5 version.

Jun 30, 2011 at 8:44 AM

To be honest, i would rather see more focus on the Silverlight version. Since the development process isn't really open, and there is no real way to submit patches and such, i think for this framework to be successful, there has to be some feedback from the people developing it.

It is slightly unsatisfying when even simple stuff like this http://smf.codeplex.com/workitem/20858 doesnt get a response from the team. Now, if the repository was open, i would be happy to submit a diff, to make it even easier for you guys, but it isn't. I will also happily help with the questions in the discussions i can help with, but for stuff that needs to be fixed in the code, it would be great with a little more general feedback there from you guys.

Anyhow, thats just my oppinion :)

- Loke

Aug 15, 2011 at 4:05 AM
mdowney wrote:

Quick update:

We're nearing the end of our first sprint for the upcoming HTML5 Player Framework. We should have our first "preview release" available within the next couple of weeks. This first release will be fairly basic functionality but will include a lot of the plumbing that will support the more advanced features that we will be releasing over the coming months. For example, we have spent a lot of time on the plugin layer and the detection library (fall back/forward). We'll also be spinning up a new dedicated site, outside of Codeplex, to focus on all of our Player Frameworks as we're in the process of significantly increasing our investment in the development of these players (particularly the HTML5 player).

We will post more updates as we get closer to our first release. Please keep the feedback coming.

Mike Downey, Microsoft
miked -- at -- microsoft.com

Is the preview release of this HTML5-player framework available yet? I am interested in checking this out. please let me know.

 

thanks/

Sep 25, 2011 at 12:11 AM

Any planned release in the near future?

Thanks,

Coordinator
Sep 26, 2011 at 3:13 PM

The HTML5 player framework preview version is now available at a new CodePlex site: http://playerframework.codeplex.com. Please visit this site to download and try out the HTML5 player and post related questions and suggestions. Thanks for all the interest in the player!

Tim

Oct 3, 2011 at 7:34 AM

Is this a video only framework?  I really think that adding the capability to "live stream" like an old-fashioned radio station to the HTML5 player framework would benefit many developers in the community.

Coordinator
Oct 3, 2011 at 6:48 PM

The HTML5 audio element only supports progressive download, so you wouldn't be able to use an audio stream as a source. Also, the HTML5 Player Framework is currently a video only framework, but we do have plans to provide an audio version. 

Oct 4, 2011 at 5:52 AM

thanks jcostello.  Is there an approximate timeframe for the audio version yet?

Jan 8, 2013 at 5:12 AM

does html5 support H.264 encoding format i.e. ism format files ?